Finding Success without an Undergraduate Degree

February 7, 2013 Greg Anderson

Dear Greg,
Very nice, interactive site here! You seem to know the ropes of the music world pretty well, so I thought I'd ask a question. I was pretty serious about piano in my teens--I went to Interlochen most summers, was on "From the Top," and I had lots of success in local competitions. Come college time, I wasn't very interested in taking the "music major" path. I mostly pursued other interests, graduating with a French major and a writing major, with a bit of piano lessons and practicing on the side. Near the end of school, I totally changed course and realized I wanted to be a pianist. I'm now in the graduate program at Carnegie Mellon with plans to apply to Peabody for a doctorate next year. I guess my question is: Does anybody succeed in the music world without having done an undergrad music program? I'm really not going for the "insanely successful concert pianist" thing. If I could join a university faculty and keep a relatively busy recital schedule, I would be quite content. Do any names come to mind of successful pianists who made their "music career" choice after undergrad? I feel dumb for having missed the chance to do a 4-year conservatory program, but hindsight is 20/20, and so on.
- AJ

Dear AJ,

That's a great question! I really don't think it matters what degrees you have; if you play well, you play well, and people will notice. Two very famous cellists majored outside of music and did very well for themselves: Yo Yo Ma and Alicia Weilerstein. That said, a university faculty position and a relatively busy recital schedule is a lot to ask for, even for most conservatory-educated gradates. I have so many friends -- with doctorates -- who would give most anything for a university faculty position!

There is no reason to harbor regrets for decisions you made; you can always use your undergraduate degrees to your advantage! Try programming concerts of French music; demonstrate to audiences how the lyricism of the language translates into the music; talk about French poetry -- what makes it beautiful, unique, or interesting -- and show how French composers utilized these attributes in their music (Gaspard de la nuit is terrific for this). Or: develop concert programs that juxtapose writing and music... that is fertile ground -- you could devote several concerts to Goethe's Faust! When you apply for teaching positions, use your academic credentials as an asset -- offer to teach classes on the topics I just mentioned, or simply state that you would be able to relate especially well with students pursuing academic degrees.

Cheer up! No regrets!

- Greg

Making a Living as a Pianist

February 7, 2013 Greg Anderson

Greg,

how much money does a concert pianist make?

- Ty

Dear Ty,

Really? Really? Are you asking me that? I'm going to do a little copy and paste (a big one, actually) -- for your convenience, I'm pasting a long reply I wrote to someone who asked me about my financial situation:

I'm not in it for the money, and it bothers me when people become preoccupied with this facet of the profession. Every time I check this website's Google stats, I see dozens of people finding the site through some variant of the following search: "How much money do concert pianists make?" I mean, really?! For real?! If you care about money, please don't become a pianist. You may or may not make a significant amount (my income fluctuates wildly from year to year -- there's no way I could tell you my "salary"), but that's definitely not what it's about.

When a pianist seeks the fame and glory of the concert stage, he or she is probably on a path to disappointment; when a pianist is motivated by the genuine love of music, he or she will certainly find a satisfying musical career. There are countless fulfilling ways to make money as a pianist, not all of which are limited to performing on the concert stage. (Please view the "Ask Greg Archives: Career" for examples.) Yes, teaching music is one, but there are many more possibilities.

"What is it you do to support yourself financially?" The answer: I play the piano and compose.

Seriously.

I keep a busy concert schedule, both as a soloist and a duo pianist. My recordings are self-produced and selling well, so I actually make money when you buy one. Please buy one. I'm a YouTube partner, so YouTube pays me when you watch my videos on YouTube. Do it. Click on those ads next to the videos! :-) I receive commissions and royalties from the works I compose for The 5 Browns. Liz and I sell my piano duo scores to the public; you can buy them on the scores page. That's most of it -- performing and composing! -- although I do give lectures here and there, I'll publish my book someday (someday!), and I have other surprising plans for the future in the works. At the moment, I don't pursue any financial gain through teaching, web design, video editing, or accompanying -- with everything that excites and consumes me, I simply don't have time.

Some people think I'm savvy, but I'm doing what feels obvious to me. I'm following my mission ("to make classical piano music a relevant and powerful force in society") in every avenue of my professional life, from my performances, compositions, concert programs, and recordings to my websites, videos, and book. My mission is ever present in what I do because I believe in it so passionately. It's not like the things I do are creative, random ideas; they are born from an innate necessity -- from a desire to make what I love relevant and powerful to others.

I really believe that if you are doing what you truly love, you'll find a way to survive. I'm not prancing about in piles of cash, but I manage to find enough doing what I do to pay my bills. I wish I had more (it would go right into recordings, videos, and websites!), but really, when it comes to money, my only concern is that I have enough to keep doing what I love. If it really matters to you how much money a concert pianist makes, I recommend another profession!

- Greg

Becoming an Expert

February 7, 2013 Greg Anderson

Hi Greg,
First I would like to congratulate you on you amazing achievements at such a young age. I am a 54 year old mother and a true music lover. As a teenager I studies piano for about 4 years. When I fell in love (with my husband), he became the centre of my universe. There was no room in my life for my piano I thought. Sad to say after 30 years of marriage he vanished from my life (I believe forever). I was heart-broken. One day I found a used piano in a local furniture store. I bought it and started to practice. It was depressing at first. After 25 years (minimum) of not touching the piano I had forgotten everything. I could not even read notes past one octave. I struggled to say the least. It’s been exactly 1 ½ years now. I am happy to say that now I can sight-read quite well and I am playing at about grade 8 level. I practice 3 ½ - 4 hours per day. I want to become a meaningful and a very natural pianist. Please tell my how long will it take? Thanks a million notes. Emma
- Emma Votre Fan

Hi Emma,

First off, I am sorry for your troubled experiences, but I'm happy to learn that you found some respite in music.

At 3.5 to 4 hours of practice a day, I'd say you're well on your way to becoming a skilled pianist. Of course, it's impossible to answer such a subjective question -- how can I possibly articulate the definition of a "meaningful and natural pianist" and the hours necessary to become one??

My advice to you: forget how long it will take to become "good" or "better" -- instead, focus on having a wonderful time doing exactly what you are doing right now. Enjoy practicing the pieces you are currently learning and forget about what is yet to come. I've been playing the piano for over 20 years, but I've loved *every* day of it.

- Greg

Greg,
its the second time im asking this question and nobody cares.im 27 ,ive been playing for about 3 years.im not good enough but i 'd love to become a good pianist,what should i do?and is it possible considering my age and few years of playing?
- Celine

Celine,

You'd have a better chance at winning the lottery than becoming a concert pianist at this point in your life. That said, there is no doubt in my mind that you could become a "good" pianist someday in the future. Actually, who knows, perhaps you already are a fantastic pianist.

My advice for you is the same advice I gave to Emma above: forget how long it will take to become "good" or "better" -- instead, focus on having a wonderful time doing exactly what you are doing right now. Enjoy practicing the pieces you are currently learning and forget about what is yet to come. I've been playing the piano for over 20 years, but I've loved *every* day of it.

Seriously. Live in the moment. You'll definitely get better with time, but playing the piano is one of those things that should be awesome all the time, regardless of your ability.

- Greg

Finding Success as a Pianist

February 7, 2013 Greg Anderson

Dear Greg,
i am a 16 year old pianist and is now a grade 5 student.i started when i am 12.During the holiday before the year 2009.i suddenly become very ambitious and i wanted to become a concert pianist.But the problem is there seems to be too many discouraging post and also encouraging post about being a concert pianist.most professionals says that one must start at a very very early age to become concert pianist.now i am so scared because even i if i am a quick learner i still cannot make it to grade 8 or deploma before entering a music university.those who started early get to play excellently before 12 and then they still have the many years to fix every single weakness.i am starting to feel the stress now because i put a lot of hope onto piano career and i surely don't want a very very dissapointing days after all those hardwork like a begger on a street playing piano and too poor to buy anything and die.i want to have a very normal and also very sustainable live doing a job that i love.The main reason i become so obssesed about piano is when i feel sad i get to play sad piece and when angry i play crazy technical piece just like all those actors in movies.and i think piano is something that is classy(high class , all those tuxedo stuff).i would like to be a person of high class somedays later.my mum said i am going to college near my place to study whatever while attending piano lesson at my area to continue until diploma.and then i apply for music college again after my college years. and of course i manage to play plenty of hard piece which my teacher don't know i can play them.i am better then all student that is in my grade(those students play piano just for fun.but i take piano more seriously then them).i play the kholer sonatinas book and i have to learn those piece.took others 2 weeks or more to play 1 movmment but took me only 1 week to play 1 movement(the most is 2 weeks if the piece is hard).i also learn the exam piece before my teacher even ask me to try it.my teacher was shocked when i played it out straight away.and i plan to migrate out of my hot country to a colder country.so dig into my essay and correct any wrong opinion and give advise and anything you want to say to me.i am just a very obssesed and discouraged pianist.i am starting to feel more head ache now to think about my future and everything about piano and about time i have left.your advise is greatly needed by me.
-Daniel C.H.L.

Dear Daniel,

Yikes, let's take a deep breath! I'm not going to have any answers for you; nor will anyone else. Nobody can predict who will have a huge, successful, world-traveling piano career and who won't. If you're playing the piano purely because you hope for such a career, I recommend you find something else to do, because you're playing the lottery with your career!

You sound somewhat conflicted... Piano and high class society? Playing the piano can be a classy occupation (though it certainly doesn't need to be), but it is very unlikely to provide you with the finances to join high class society. Obsessed and discouraged? Obsession is an absolute must for any thriving piano player, but if you are truly, truly obsessed, it is unlikely you will ever find yourself discouraged for very long. A rather wonderful perk of obsession: it makes you oblivious to any setbacks or impossibilities. (Of course, if you're of the obsessive temperament, I recommend you direct your obsession down healthy avenues.)

I also sense somewhat of a competitive vibe from you. Does it really matter how fast your high school classmates learn their music? As you say, use the piano as an outlet for your emotions, not as means to bolster your self-worth.

If, however, (and I've said this many times before -- please see the "Ask Greg: Career" archives) you simply want to play the piano for a living, go for it. Society has many, many different needs for pianists that you could fill. Most piano careers will not make you incredible wealth, so as I said above, joining the upper echelon of society is unlikely, but they can be extraordinarily satisfying.

Just make sure that you chose a career playing the piano for the right reasons; if so, things will work out.

- Greg

Supporting Oneself as a Pianist

February 7, 2013 Greg Anderson

Dear Greg,
You have answered a question as follows.. "don't go into music if you want to be a 'concert pianist.' Even if you've got mad skills, the chances of sustaining a career are next to impossible." despite the fact you then go on to state that there are lots of uses for pianists in the job market. Most people define the difference between a job and a career is a job is a way to make some extra cash, and a career is a steady paycheck to support oneself as guaranteed income. My question to you is, what is it you do to support yourself financially? I hear alot of artists do web design these days, unlike before the computer craze, many took office jobs, some worked in banks and a very lucky few took jobs in corporate, sometimes Wall Street gives a chance to someone without a degree in business. Strange enough, why is it so many artists dont teach music in public schools? Benefits, summers off and pension seem like a reasonable equation for a artist to work by day and practice by night while sharing their love of music with others. It seems to me this would be the career path one would go after making such an investment in attending Juilliard or any other music school.
- Matt

Dear Matt,

Wow. Let's not confuse my meaning. (Perhaps I've mistakenly been using the words "career" and "job" interchangeably!) In these answers, I frequently find myself encouraging questioners to consider a musical career that doesn't involve trotting the globe performing for large, enthusiastic audiences. Such a career is partly a product of extreme talent and partly a product of pure luck. My point is: when a pianist seeks the fame and glory of the concert stage, he or she is probably on a path to disappointment; when a pianist is motivated by the genuine love of music, he or she will certainly find a satisfying musical career. There are countless fulfilling ways to make money as a pianist not wholly limited to performing on the concert stage. (Please view the "Ask Greg Archives: Career" for examples.) Yes, teaching music is one, but there are many more possibilities.

"What is it you do to support yourself financially?" This is like one of those questions one of my distant relatives will ask after a concert. "So, that was great Greg, but how do you plan to make a living?!" The answer: I play the piano and compose.

Seriously.

- Greg

Finding Your Career Path and College Auditions

February 7, 2013 Greg Anderson

Dear Greg,

First off, thank you for what you are doing with your talent. We need to break the Victorian paradigms! On to my question: I have just turned 16 and am thinking about colleges. I would love to attend a conservatory, but am worried that it will be all piano all the time and if down the road piano doesn't work out for me, I will have nothing to fall back on. I also have the question of repertoire choices, specifically the Classical sonata. Is the Appassionata too cliched? I absolutely love the piece and think I could give a very good performance of it, but I am worried that it is so well known that everybody has a definitive idea of how it should be played, and if I play it differently, they will not like it. What did you play for your audition to Juiliard? What about other people? I know a Prelude and Fugue, Chopin's first Ballade, and his Etude Op. 25 No. 12. For a modern piece, I think I will do the Bartok sonata. Do you have any ideas on these? Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you!!!

- Jon B.

Dear Jon,

When it comes to careers, I really can't tell you what to do! One of the many great things about life is that you can often change your mind. So often we feel like we are locked in, but really, we have the ability to start fresh whenever we want. I've seen a number of inspiring forty-year-olds go back to school to pursue a different avenue in life; a friend of mine did her undergrad and master's degrees at Juilliard and now she's in dental school; Aspen Music Festival accepts adult piano students. You're in control.

You also have the power to make your college experience amazing, no matter what school you attend. Alternatively, you can find ways to waste your time at any of the most renowned institutions in America. If you want a well-rounded education, you can get that, whether you're at Juilliard or New York University. Too often I see people complaining rather than using their energy in positive and useful ways.

One word of caution: don't go into music if you want to be a "concert pianist." Even if you've got mad skills, the chances of sustaining a career are next to impossible. Instead, go to college with the dream of playing the piano for the rest of your life! There are loads of uses for pianists in the job market, and if you really love playing the piano and making music, then these can be extraordinarily fulfilling jobs. Who knows, you could become really famous and play solo recitals in Carnegie Hall or you could become an influential piano teacher; in either case, you'll be a satisfied musician. As long as your happiness doesn't rely on fame, there are loads of musically satisfying jobs you could pursue as a pianist.

As for your audition repertoire, play whatever it is you want to play (in other words, play pieces that reflect you as a musician), and when your audition rolls around, play well. That's all that matters. My undergrad audition program consisted of the following pieces: Bach's Prelude and Fugue in A minor from WTC I, Beethoven's "Waldstein" Sonata, Mendelssohn's Variations sérieuses, Liszt's Transcendental Etude No. 4 -- "Mazeppa", and Prokofiev's Third Piano Sonata. I'm not sure whether this was the greatest audition program, but I loved performing all of the pieces and I played them well.

Best wishes to you as you prepare for your auditions!

- Greg

Finding a Career

February 7, 2013 Greg Anderson

Dear Greg,
Hi, I am a 15 year old who isn't extremely advanced in piano (right now I am working on a toccata by Debussy, an etude by Mozkowski, and a Prelude by Chopin) but I REALLY enjoy the piano and love putting much expression into my pieces. Last summer I attended the Interlochen Arts Camp, I was accepted into the interlochen arts boarding high school, and this summer I have been accepted into the Eastman School of Music's high school Music Horizons program. I was wondering, how likely is it for me to be a concert pianist? Also, how much money does a concert pianist typically make?
- Rachel

Dear Rachel,

To answer your first question, I have copied and pasted my response to a previous question:

Please peruse the "Piano as a career" archives. I've already responded to quite a few questions about the demands, difficulties, and joys of playing the piano as a career, and my responses are archived there. To summarize: it is extremely difficult to make a living as a "concert pianist," even for the best pianists. Many Juilliard graduates I know have quit their instruments and turned their attention to finding alternative means of income. I fully believe in the realization of dreams, but some dreams take a ridiculous amount of work (especially in this case); you have to want it so bad that you are willing to make enormous sacrifices in other areas of your life.... like your day job... like time spent with your friends... like sleep... The rewards can be awesome, but you have to decide if the cost is worth it to you.

However, and I'm repeating myself here, there are other ways to earn money as a pianist that don't involve performing on concert stages. None of them are easy, all of them are important, and all of them can be extremely rewarding.

If you truly love playing the piano, if you enjoy creating music, if you are fascinated by the piano repertoire... you could always consider the greatest musical vocation of them all: you could be an amateur. By definition, amateurs "love" what they do. Amateurs keep music alive in homes around the world. More so than many professionals, amateurs are truly in touch with the joys of music, and their joy is contagious. Amateurs help to raise the musical literacy around the world. Amateurs deserve enormous respect, and America, in particular, is in need of many more amateur pianists.

To answer your second question: there is no typical income for a concert pianist. A pianist's annual salary entirely depends on the number of concerts he or she performs. It is a highly irregular, unpredictable, insecure, and wonderful job. :-)

- Greg

Advice for Adult Beginners

February 7, 2013 Greg Anderson

Dear Greg,
I stopped playing the piano when I pass my ABRSM Grade 5 piano practical exam in 2000. Discouragements and disappointments leaded me to give up achieving my dream of being a professional pianist. However, I dunno how, not too long ago, I managed to have the desire to play the piano and dream to be a pianist again. I'm now 24. Is it too late for me to continue practice playing the piano to achieve my dream? If I may still have the opportunity to be a pianist, how can I achieve this dream? Do I need to possess national playing standard and have a degree in piano performace? P.S. Your true and most honest opinion will be very much helpful. Thank you very much.
- Andrea

Dear Andrea,

Good luck!

- Greg

Getting into Juilliard

October 23, 2009 Greg Anderson

Hi Greg,
I'm 14 and I'm wondering if I could go to Juilliard when I graduate high school. I've played for three years, but have only been serious about it for a couple months. In 4 months, I've gotten considerably better. I went and saw the 5 Browns last Saturday, and they were amazing. It was the only classical concert I haven't almost fallen asleep in. So, my questions are: 1.) is it at all realistic that I could get into Juilliard? and 2.) how much would I have to practice to achieve this? 2 or 3 hours a day? Thanks!
- Holly

Hi Greg,
I have been what you could call a "lost soul" when it comes to my future and what I would like to do musically once I reach college (I'm a junior in highschool). I feel pretty set on doing something music related. But I'm not sure what. So you wont be left in the dark, a little background on my music situation: I took two years of piano when I was nine years old, and after then have been playing for my own enjoyment and only recently was able to get back into lessons; at thirteen I played violin, again for two years, before switching to cello which I've found much more to my liking. I've only played for nearly half a year so far. I want to major in music but I don't know if that's possible for me, seeing as I've started so late and may only make five or so years of decent progress. I'm not sure if I could be an extremely advanced pianist, though it is an instrument I hold close to my heart and can usually learn on quickly; I've progressed well on cello so far and I think I may be able to learn quickly enough if I really practice hard. All of this worry about being "advanced enough" points to one college in particular... you guessed it: Juilliard. My family encourages me that I can do it. I've had the notion in my head for a while but I was too ignorant (and a little too self-assured) to study more seriously until now. Has there ever been a person advanced enough to study there who hasn't been playing since they were three? Can one reach that level in a short amount of time if they work at it? Am I crazy to want to go there still?
- Caroline

Hi Holly and Caroline,
Yes, it's unlikely that you would get into Juilliard, just as it is unlikely that any pianist will get into the school. But it isn't impossible. I can think of at least two pianists who began playing the piano when they were 13 and still got into the undergraduate program. As far as practice goes, I typically practiced a couple hours on piano and a couple hours on violin every day when I was in junior high school. I quit the violin later in high school and relegated its practice time to the piano. This, by no means, reflects what other students would need to invest to get into the school.
Having said all that, I advise you to remain flexible with your future. Don't pigeon-hole yourself into one path to happiness. While Juilliard is a fantastic place to be, it certainly is not the be-all and end-all of music schools. I received my doctorate at Yale, and my experience at the school was similarly wonderful and refreshing (the facilities there, btw, are incredible -- top notch). Who knows how your life will progress! If you don't get into Juilliard, please don't treat that as a sign of failure; the rejection could lead to a transformational experience at another music school... maybe you'll meet the love of your life, or you'll work with an amazing and magical teacher, or maybe your group of friends will ultimately band together to form a chamber ensemble of awesomeness. I always tell myself, "things work out the way they should."
Happy practicing!
- Greg (Oct. 23, 2009)